The Big Takeover
August 26, 1991
Robyn Hitchcock
Hard Cash For A Soft Boy
by Jack Rabid
Why not interview Robyn Hitchcock? His words are always interesting -- and often entertaining. He was in town doing press for his new LP, Perspex Island ("perspex" being UK for Plexiglass, I think). The conversation took place August 26, 1991 in Robyn's room at the Empire Hotel in New York. His delightfully smart teenage daughter Maisie (hope I spelled that right: Robyn rhymes it with "hazy") was also present reading magazines while we spoke, and she'd occasionally interject a comment. She's a big music fan and is up on all the new groups (which was refreshing to see).
A good friend of mine, contributing photographer Lee Anne Caldwell, also togged along to snap these great pictures of Mr. Hitchcock and ask him all the questions she's been storing up for years (she's a longtime fan) -- and even seemed a bit nervous to meet him, which is always pleasantly, endearingly amusing to me!
While on the radio the former Soft Boys leader and veteran solo artist often comes across as a lovable loony-toon with an eccentric, far-fetched imagination and a gift for out-of-this-world wordplay that leaves the rest of us going, "What the...". But there's little trace of that here, with Robyn just answering the questions politely, as anyone would. That makes it more interesting to me, actually. In particular, his comments about the endless comparisons between him and the work of Pink Floyd founder Syd Barrett (I often make them myself), and the other artists he's worked with over the years (Captain Sensible, R.E.M., etc.) are well worth reading.
In search of these reactions, I brought along some of the records Robyn's played on, to get him to remark on them more fully. The dialogue begins with us discussing one such 7-inch single: Captain Sensible's "I'm A Spider", which later appeared on the Captain's The Power Of Love. (See the Sensible interview elsewhere in this issue for his comments on Robyn!)
Thanks to Regina Jaskow for the thankless work transcribing this for me.
I don't have a copy of this.
[laughing]
Lee Anne: You don't even have one?
It's really sad, because we all thought it was going to get lots of airplay and it didn't get any at all. I wrote all the Captain's flops -- not the successful ones.
Why don't you ask him for one?
Put quite a serious dent in his career. We always thought this should have been a hit -- everybody liked it. You know, everyone we played it to liked it.
You played guitar and sang backup on that?
I had a lot to do with it -- I wrote the words and I sang the middle eight and played guitar. Yeah, 'cause I wasn't working myself at that stage, so I could kind of...you know, my...sort of, you know: projecting through Captain Sensible. Actually, I wrote him some really crappy lyrics.
[laughing] For instance?
Well, the first Sensible album is good. [Women And Captains First]
I actually prefer The Power Of Love.
Do You?
Yeah.
Well, I thought Power Of Love was a weak record. I liked "Sir Donald's Son", but Captain just got burned out. He had suddenly had a number one hit and A&M were just throwing money at him. So he'd just go in the studio, you know, we'd all sit in these expensive studios and drink... [What follows is unintelligible.]
Another really good--
He got a single off the second album. "I'm Glad It's All Over" was the single, and then after that, it was all over. And he left, and A&M, sort of, dropped him.
I know someone else who played on those sessions. In fact, "It's Hard To Believe I'm Not" is one he's on -- it's Dave Ruffy.
Oh, I haven't seen him for ages!
Lee Anne: He backed up Sinead O'Connor on a tour.
Did he?
Recently, yeah.
I saw him in D.C. -- he was in The Ruts.
Oh, I was at that show. The 9:30 Club?
Uh, yeah, that's right -- what, of ours?
No, The Ruts show.
No, I didn't see The Ruts, but I saw him at the 9:30. It was the last time I saw him, I think.
Who was he playing with? Aztec Camera?
Something like that, yeah.
Yeah, he's a great drummer.
So anyway, sorry. What do you want to know, if anything?
[Laughter from all.]
Lee Anne: Are you burnt out? I know you've had a long day. I don't know whether to start with the new album. Like, what were your original concepts? Where do you begin starting to write an album? Do you travel? I guess you do travel a lot. What was your point of inspiration in writing your lyrics?
Oh, there isn't one, really. I just write the songs.
Lee Anne: It's within you and it just comes out? Things trapped inside of you let out?
It's just a metabolic process that you have to have -- otherwise it doesn't work. I just do it all the time, anyway. That's all I ever do. You know, I just sit there and write songs. I just sit there like a hen in a box writing songs.
And you gotta let the hen out!
Lee Anne: I thought maybe there was something that triggered you...
No. I mean, whatever's been happening in the world outside -- when I say "The world outside" I mean whatever's been happening or not happening in my life is then filtered through. If something happened recently then maybe it comes through. Sometimes things come through from years back. It's like dreams: we don't know why we dream, but we know we go insane if we don't. We need the function of dreams.
Lee Anne: That's right.
And it's the same part of the brain that creates as dreams, I think. Nobody understands. People say, "Well, dreams are surreal and they're weird and they don't make sense." But they're important for some reason. The period of sleep known as R.E.M..
Before the band!
Yeah! So I would say (as pretensiously as I can) that my songs fulfill the same function as dreams. Same part of the brain. And it keeps me sane. You know, I get stuff out. So it's all gone. You can tell if you've heard my stuff. I don't write to make a point about the world's beliefs (or anything like that).
Lee Anne: It's entertaining.
It's not really to entertain, either. It's simply to get (as you said), to get something in, out. And what is in there is in there for a reason that we can't fathom.
Lee Anne: Or articulate.
But it's not usually an opinion. I've written songs with opinions in them: sort of, anti-government songs. And they're all crap because they're opinionated. And I throw them away.
Lee Anne: Might be one-sided, or...
Well, they're just a load of opinions. You don't need that unless you have that opinion already -- in which case you'll believe it. And if you don't, you'll say, "I disagree with you." So that's why I don't write political songs.
Lee Anne: You don't have a strong feeling for that?
It's the old preaching-to-the-converted aspect.
Well, there's nothing like the converted to preach on. Same as you can always sell the same record to the same people. It's much more difficult to sell a slightly different record to slightly different people. Hopefully this record -- although it's pretty much the same as all the other fifteen -- will get to a few more people that didn't get this (or whatever it was).
I thought the live album was really going to break you in this country. It was getting a big push for a while.
Lee Anne: Yeah, last year.
The live album? Gotta Let This Hen Out!?
Lee Anne: Oh, oh -- the live album.
No, about six years ago.
Well, it got played some places. But it wouldn't have been played on CHR or AOR. It was just played on college [radio] -- which will only get you up to one level. You need all these bulldozers and hitmen (and all the rest of it) to actually sell you to the silent majority, you know? So you're tapping on their forehead, and they can't forget it.
Lee Anne: Does it have anything to do with what label you're on, too?
Sure.
Lee Anne: you were on Relativity for a long time.
Although Reltativity, they just sold nine hundred thousand of whatever it's called -- Steve Vai's album. Relativity is getting stronger, but I don't think they get stuff in the Top 40 much.
Lee Anne: The music business has really come around a lot, too. Money, and everything. It's less of a struggle for musicians that it used to be, isn't it?
Come around? I don't know, because there are so many musicians fighting for a slice, now. The old ones haven't gone away. You know, England particularly, produces a new crop of bands every six months. Those bands get signed, but that doesn't mean to say that the record label then drops everyone else they have. So you got the Melody Maker (and everybody), kind of, force-feeding the record industry. Whoever it is -- they're all quite short names now, like "Cud", and "Eat", and "Lush".
Blur, Ride.
Yeah. And they'll be next to three syllable things. So...but The Rolling Stones are still there. Keith Richards is still there.
And now there's the past revival, too.
Lee Anne: Like, The Damned is coming back around.
But they're not revived. The Damned just seems to need money every now and then. So Rat milks the promoters for everything they're worth. If they do well, you know, they'll just take them out again. They'll do a farewell tour and say, "Well, that was good...okay lads, let's go out."
They're playing here in three weeks.
You going?
Yeah, I always go to see them.
Maisie: I've collected everything they've ever done. We actually know Captain Sensible, so it's quite good.
[Phone rings, Robyn answers.] Hello, Trudy. How are you?
[break]
Lee Anne: I was going to ask you about your painting. Is that something you like to do, relaxing, or...
I did a lot of paintings in L.A. because I...we were mixing, so I didn't have anything physical to do with my hands.
God, do I know that feeling.
Other than eating peanuts.
Lee Anne: That's a constructive use of your time.
And it's...they didn't really want us in the studio anyway for the mix. We'd just come in and listen. Paul [Fox, producer] would just come and get us and say, "See what you think of this." Which suits me fine. So Andy [Metcalfe] would, sort of, drive around (or sunbathe and swim). And I just sat in this little room and painted for two weeks. And then in D.C., I was there for a few weeks. In June I was, kind of, stuck there waiting to do a video. And we had to wait endlessly until that happened in July. So I did a bunch of painting there. And...I couldn't play the guitar because there was somebody staying in the house. So generally, if I'm cut off from the guitar, I paint.
Lee Anne: Do you ship your paintings back?
No, I got some here. I'll show you.
Lee Anne: Cool.
Since you ask.
Can you exhibit them someday?
I want to do an exhibition next year if I can, actually.
Lee Anne: Do you have any books out that have collected your works, or anything?
No. I'm writing a story, though, for Reflex (which will be fun).
Huh. That's another mag I write for.
Well, Jack, you're all over the place. You got there first (wherever it is).
My buddy is editor there. Greg Fasolino.
Greg?
Yeah.
That's right. I was just talking to him. So, he said I have to have it in by the end of September.
It's all right. I'm always late. You can be too. [Sorry Greg!]
I don't want to be too. I've got to have a deadline. So these are all, kind of...
Lee Anne: Are these Cynthia Maskinow?
No, I don't know who that is...I don't know who that is, either.
Lee Anne: Do you remember your dreams sometimes, and paint them?
No, no. I avoid my dreams. I don't like to have anything to do with them at all. I've never summoned my dreams.
Lee Anne: It might be haunting, or.... That's a beautiful...I like your colors.
I've got to take them back to England and...well, these two still need some work. But I've got the batch from L.A. in England -- and that's quite good. So I'm just going to stockpile them.
Lee Anne: Do you prefer acrylics or oils?
No, these are all oils. I've never really worked in acrylics. I mean, if you gave me a set of acrylics, I'd work in them. It's just that when I first painted -- somebody put oil paints in front of me, so I used them.
Are you self-taught, or did you take classes in art school?
I did go to art school for a while, but it really didn't make much difference. But I don't know...Maisie's mum...we're separated now, but she did three years of art school. She's actually going back. She's a professional painter.
Lee Anne: In England?
In England. Whereas I just...this is my hobby.
Lee Anne: Your outlet...creative outlet.
Well, I don't know. I drew and painted years before I ever wrote songs. In those days I listened to music all the time, and I drew. I wouldn't draw without music. Whereas now, actually I generally turn it...I like to paint in silence. But in those days, I wouldn't do anything without music. I wouldn't clean the car without it. I had a portable gramophone, because there were no cassette players in those days (this is like, 1968). If I had to chop wood, I'd take my gramophone out there. Or, you know, if we were going to sit in the middle of a field, I'd take a gramophone. It was like a sacrament. I took this bloody portable record player everywhere I went.
I'm just starting to get out of that now for the first time.
What month were you born?
In March.
Oh, really? What day?
The sixteenth.
Ah, you're a fish.
Glub, glug, glug.
Lee Anne: I like to paint fish.
Do you?
Lee Anne: Yeah. I have a pet lungfish at home.
A pet lungfish?
Lee Anne: Yeah.
A real lungfish.
Lee Anne: Yeah, he's really neat. His name is King.
You paint it?
Lee Anne: I do paintings of him. I didn't paint him.
Really? What do lungfish look like?
Lee Anne: It's an amphibious animal. They come from Australia and Africa; and (I think) India. And when the drought season comes they dig a hole in the mud...
Oh, god.
Lee Anne: ...and to survive, they have actual lungs. And they can breath when there's no water.
Oh, I know them.
Lee Anne: They have, like, fins on the side. And they're kind of eel-like.
Does it like to dig into the ground? Isn't it upset by being in water all the time?
He has a tube that he hides under. And a piece of slate that he hides behind that. We have to give him live fish, and he gulps them down when he sees them. He's got kind of cloudy eyes. He doesn't always see them. But when he sees them, he eats them all at once.
Well, there's shrimps in the Mojave Desert. And every twenty-five years there's no rain...the water drains away, and they lie there in egg-form. And the next time it rains they all hatch. And they breed, and then they die -- and the new eggs lay there.
I never saw that on Wild Kingdom.
Well, they probably didn't think there was enough action to justify it.
[In Marlin Perkins' voice] We're sitting here patiently awaiting the coming of the snails.
Well, it's like the seventeen-year...
The Halley's Comet of the snail world.
Well, that's right. There's the seventeen-year locust in Virginia.
And New Jersey.
We were just hearing about that.
Lee Anne: Yeah, such a strange phenomenon.
Yeah, I know to leave town whenever they hit.
Really?
They make a mess, boy.
Lee Anne: I remember the year they came -- in the '70s, I believe. I remember they were burrowing all over the ground, making a lot of noise. It was really strange.
Oh, god.
Lee Anne: Speaking of which, you refer a lot to the nature world in your songs. You must find things like that fascinating. Like "Acid Bird", and "Egyptian Cream", and "Madonna Of The Wasps".
Well, why not, really? They look good.
Lee Anne: But do they fascinate you?
Well, I don't stay up late at night looking at drawings of insects. I'm not a lepidopterist. But I think they look great. Rather than...you know, I like visual music, I like visual songs. I like to have things in there that...you know, the music that we play isn't necessarily colorful. It doesn't have any plumage. Compared to, say, somebody like Siouxsie (or someone like that), whose stuff is a lot more decorative in a way -- and she's a lot more exotic to look at. But the actual words...
Lee Anne: I find your music very...
But not the sound. I think our sound is really quite plain. It's like Folk-y stuff. I just like to have pictures in songs. And you don't want to have pictures of people all the time. But, like I said earlier, I'm not really responsible for what I write. I just...it comes.
Lee Anne: So you're referring to the imagery?
You know, imagery...people say imagery...imagery means something. My stuff doesn't mean anything. It simply is what it is. So if I'm singing about Madonna Of The Wasps, that's what it is. It's this woman turning into an insect (and good luck to her). Whatever happens in the next panel, happens. But I'm not saying anything about either women or insects.
Lee Anne: No, you're not making a political statement (like you said).
I'm not making a political statement. But I'm not making a sexual statement. Or I'm not...it's not like people who talk about Bob Dylan songs and say, "What Dylan means here is...." You know, I don't mean anything. I never have, and I never will.
I always thought that song was kind of like a modern Franz Kafka.
What do you mean? You mean like "Metamorphasis"?
Yeah.
But, you see, people said, "What does that mean?" People said, "This is an existential nightmare, you know, because this person's turned into a huge bug." But maybe it wasn't meant to be any story of someone who becomes a bug.
But, you know, it might be better than being human.
Right. The trouble is, that creature has a human past and a bug present. And it's been shocked.
Lee Anne: Kind of like that movie The Fly (or something): transformation.
Yeah, there's something about that that's fascinating, isn't it? People turning into other things. And it goes right back into our mythology: sphinxes, and [?], and those sort of things that are half dragons...mermaids...it's a long tradition, that.
Lee Anne: Centaurs.
Yeah. And I don't know why we do it. But it's something we do.
I saw this copy of the Weekly World News--
Yeah, I always read that.
Lee Anne: It's always fun!
"Human Born With Horse's Body". They had a picture of it: this human head on a horse's body!
I saw one: "Man gives birth to nine-pound baby". Oh, and "Hitler With His Gay Lover". He and Josef Mengele went out.
I'm sure hat paper's an endless source of inspiration.
Ummm...not consciously. But I like reading it. I send it to Maisie when I'm away. [Jack pulls out a copy of the Soft Boys' first single, the Give It To The Soft Boys EP.] Where'd you get this?
I bought it at Bleeker Bob's 14 years ago.
When it came out?
Uh-huh. I used to collect the Raw label.
How much was it when you bought it?
$2.50.
Now it's going for a lot in England.
Maisie: In England it's about £35.
I bought it just 'cause I collected the label, and anything they put out was usually pretty good.
Not only that, but anything that they put out, usually none of the artists saw any money for. The guy who put it out is a great small-time crook. He never ripped off enough for anybody to actually have his arms broken. He owes us four or five grand right now.
Do you know what was the tip-off that he was a crook without even knowing that? None of the artists ever put out a second record for him, for the most part.
That's exactly why.
I usually make that kind of assumption: that if the label is a good label, people stick with them.
Well, it's partly 'cause it's small, and people are often...you know, people often use an indie label as a launching-pad.
It's strange, this affiliating with CBS.
Yeah, but it wasn't really distributed by CBS. He just put that on here to make it look like they were posh. They were actually distributed by Creole Records, who were in turn distributed by CBS -- sometimes.
When they felt like it?
Creole was a dodgy independent.
Are you surprised that The Soft Boys have become so recognized since you've split up?
I don't think they're very recognized. I think they're recognized in one small circle: in Alternative record collector circles.
Lee Anne: Die-hards.
Yeah, well, people like collecting records that...I mean, if this had been, you know...because The Soft Boys never sold much... They never pressed up very much of Soft Boys records. So as the years go by, Soft Boys and early records of mine are increasingly rare. Whereas The Pistols (or someone), they'd press up fifty or a hundred thousand. So "Holiday In The Sun" isn't worth so much. So, that's increased our value to record collectors.
Yeah. In fact, I saw a copy of this Knox single [Pulls it out, a cover of Syd Barrett's "Gigolo Aunt"] on the wall someplace for $25 just because they play you on it.
Yeah. It was on 4-track, and we had so little space that they punched me in on the lead vocal track after the singing had stopped. And I just played some noodling guitar.
And for that it's 25-30 bucks! That's what, about $5 per second?
Well, it's certainly more than any of us got for making the record! Knox never saw any money.
Maybe all the Vibrators fans bought it.
Knox and Eddie still run The Vibrators. And they just go 'round playing anywhere. It's sad, actually. They'll go play dodgy gigs in Spain. At least The Damned are still able to headline the Ritz. I mean, the Vibrators were really big in '77. They were on CBS.
They had Top 40 hits in England. I saw them...they came around in the mid-'80s. It wasn't the original band, but they were still fun. I even saw them at Cricketer's two years ago.
Criceter's? Where?
In Kennington.
Really?
Yeah.
Was anybody there?
Forty people.
Someone's just recording the Vibrators...R.E.M. are doing a Vibrators cover of "Baby Baby", so that'll certainly make Knox a bit of money.
I should think so. Their cover or Wire's "Strange" sure made Colin Newman a lot of money! I was talking to him about that, and he said it pretty much financed Wire's comeback. What are you plans with R.E.M.? Are you going to be playing with them more?
No. We don't have any plans. We just go...Peter'll probably be around. And he just gets there.
Lee Anne: You've got Michael Stipe on your new one. Is that the first time he's been on one?
Yeah. Well, we started in Athens, so there were more of them around than usual. The next record will have Mike Mills and Bill Berry.
Lee Anne: I like that song a lot.
There's another one called "Dark Green Energy", which is coming out at Christmas on CD -- and he actually sings whole words on that one. He just goes "La la la" on this one. Mike Mills is great, actually. Peter and I and Mike played some stuff together in Athens last week.
Just last week?
Yeah.
Lee Anne: That's what's coming out at Christmas?
There's going to be a CD with "Ultra Unbelievable Love" (from the album) and a bunch of outtakes -- one of which is "Green Energy", with Michael on it. I mean, we see a lot of R.E.M.. I see them everywhere. We cross paths an awful lot.
Lee Anne: It must be kismet.
They just turn up. That and Billy Bragg. Big traveling mafia of R.E.M., and Billy Bragg, and us. We're going out with Billy Bragg in England in October.
Lee Anne: Oh, you're touring together?
Yeah. He's headlining, we're--
Lee Anne: You and The Egyptians?
Yeah. Me and The Egyptians.
"Sexuality" did really well over there.
Apparently. I heard it in a chip shop in The Isle Of Wight, which is pretty good (on the radio).
I was trying desperately to try to get into The Borderline in London for that Nigel And The Crosses gig you played with Pete Buck.
You were in England then?
Yes, by coincidence. It was the last night I was there.
Oh, god. Well, we were all...well, Stipe didn't sing. But, I was there, Billy was there, Glenn Tillbrook...all the stars. Glenn Tillbrook...we did "Foxy Lady". It was fun. I don't suppose it was that good to listen to. But it was enjoyable. But in case you ask, we have no further plans for Nigel.
Too bad. I liked "Wild Mountain Thyme" a lot.
Actually, it would be nice to do a live album in Montana. Peter and I were fantasizing about that.
Billings? Live in Billings? Butte?
Somewhere like that, yeah. Find somewhere where they never have any music. Go and live there for a weekend in a motel, and record something in the bar.
You'd have to keep it quiet, so there isn't some stupid contest to come to the show.
Well, even if there was, what would it matter? They'd fly two extra people in to come to the show. They probably haven't even heard of R.E.M. up there. Even if they have, there's nobody there to hear of them. We could really bask in obscurity. I mean, it would be relative obscurity.
Well, why not head 200 miles north of there, into Canada?
Because there'd be no electricity.
Saskatoon.
And you want some kind of human response.
That's pretty funny.
Lee Anne: I was going to ask you about Globe Of Frogs, "Tropical Flesh Mandala". Did you go through a period where you studied Chinese or Asian culture? Like you said, there's nothing--
No. "Tropical Flesh Mandala" is this great big, um...I was on the beach near where I live -- with a friend of ours called "Jose" -- and this pink globe came out of...it was out of the--
[Phone rings -- interruption.]
This pink thing comes up -- it was a pink man-made plastic globe, and it had these hundreds of little fronds. Things growing up off it like worms with little...sort of, little mussels. Not mussles like here, but sea mussels. Sort of, little mussels on the end of it that were alive, opening up. And I went and took it back and took a photograph of it, and the photo didn't come out. In fact, it did come out. What happened is, we lost the film (or something). It was this really strange thing. The half of it that had been out of the sea was just an ordinary pink, 'cause it floated...it was a buoy (as we call them). The half of it that was out of the water was clear and shiny. But the other half had all these weird organisms growing on it.
Lee Anne: Oh, cool!
That's what the song is about. And then I saw the little growths in a shop window in Greece about two years later.
Lee Anne: So you never read up on Mandala symbolism (or anything)?
No. I just said, "Mandala" because it looked good. It fit. It was symmetrical. You know, it wasn't literally...I just used that as a starting point.
Lee Anne: I just thought that since you did a lot of painting, that would have been something that would have been interesting to you. Might have triggered something deep. Something out of the quagmires of your brain (or something).
Well, you never know what comes bubbling up. It's all pretty gaseous, really.
Have you seen the Captain lately?
No, I haven't seen him for two years. But I have spoken with him. Maisie raided the Captain's loft of some old Damned stuff. I had a copy, but it was broken. So, my friend Trudy's coming up. I mean, we'll have to keep this reasonably brief, 'cause we've got to go out soon. So if you ask what you think are the most scintillating questions...
Lee Anee: I think I've pretty much covered it. I just want to ask you about "My Wife And My Dead Wife".
Yeah, what about it?
Lee Anne: Whether that's just a metaphor?
What, whether I actually have a dead wife?
Lee Anne: No, no, no. Well, I know it's sort of like another tangent that we went off. It's just, I've always liked that song a lot, and I wanted to hear what you have to say about it. I find it very interesting.
Oh. Well, I was on a cycling holiday, and we were in Sark. Maisie was about seven, and there were no cars. You're not allowed motor transport in Sark. It's one of the Channel Islands, and so the only form...apart from a couple of tractors that people pick up from the ferry...all there are is bicycles. So we were cycling around one day, and I suddenly thought, "My Wife And My Dead Wife". Sort of, just came to me. Probably the exertion.
Lee Anne: What did your wife think?
Yeah, well, she used to feel threatened by her, I think....um, quite understandably. And, it's simply about the overlay of one relationship on another. So, uh...I mean, it happens (I call it "Dead Wife Syndrome") where somebody has not digested an old relationship properly -- and they're in a new one.
I call that "ghosts"!
Lee Anne: Yeah. I just thought, being in England, they talk about ghosts in castles, and stuff. I mean--
Oh, no, they don't. They talk about ghosts in castles over here.
They're bored shitless over there!
Lee Anne: I thought maybe you're just making fun of that (or something).
Very few of us have ever seen a castle or a ghost in England.
Except on your postage stamps.
Lee Anne: Those tourist-y things.
I don't even think you can see a ghost on a postage stamp. Do we have castles on postage stamps?
I get them all the time.
I thought we just had the Queen's head.
No. There's a big one...it's like a pound-stamp.
I don't know. I've never had that much money. It's hard to tell.
Did you ever get any response from The Higsons?
Yeah! I met two of them backstage and we...where did we go? One of them rings me up fairly frequently. He's just recorded a tribute to The Jesus And Mary Chain, on saxophone. It's four Jesus And Mary Chain songs recorded instrumentally on saxophones.
"You Trip Me Up"?
That's what he does. He works in [unintelligible]. It's called "Terry". Andy plays squash with him sometimes, I think. And I don't think there's any plans for a Higsons revival.
Just about everybody else, but...
Lee Anne: And that's one of your favorite songs, right?
Yeah, actually. That is one of my favorite songs of yours.
What?
"Listening To The Higsons".
Oh. Well, it's ten years old now.
Maisie: Look: it's a Syd Barrett review. [She's looking at issue #30 of The Big Takeover.]
What? Has Syd put out a record?
Peel Sessions. But I reviewed it when it came out in England two years ago. This was just a recap, now that it's come out here. Are you sick of being compared to him?
Maisie: No, because he likes him so much.
Lee Anne: It's like a compliment, then, right?
[Reads from review aloud] Well, that's interesting. I don't know. There's so much I could say about Syd Barrett. And, um, there's some books out about him now, which have various quotes from me in it.
The leading authority!
No, I'm not the leading authority. I mean, he was certainly a very big influence. But it got to the point where I was unwittingly the hight priest of the Syd Barrett cult. I had people coming to see me because they thought I had him stashed away somewhere. I had some insight into his mind (or whatever).
Have you heard that song? The Television Personalities ["I know where Syd Barrett lives"]?
Yeah. Well, Dan's a good songwriter. Um, but I...no, I don't really listen to them. But I know it, anyway. I would say that...actually, I remember this session when it came out. I haven't heard this record, but I remember "Gigolo Aunt" (and stuff) on the radio.
One of the tracks is previously unreleased, so it's kind of essential.
That's, um...Rick Wright wrote that. Syd didn't write that. I think he was...I'm just surprised he wasn't more popular. He's influenced a lot of people. David Bowie, and loads of them. Lots of people are fans of his. Richard Butler...um, the R.E.M. boys. Countless people would admit to being Syd fans. But he's only known in musician circles. He's not known in...Pink Floyd are almost -- but not quite -- a household name. But a lot of...all over the world, Pink Floyd have generated an enourmous amount of money.
But not for "Interstellar Overdrive".
And he...well, you know, as far as his apparent contribution to Rock culture, is the words "Pink Floyd". That's all most people know about him. He should have been absolutely...I'm not saying he should have been massive. But he should have been better-respected. But because he was going for such a short time -- and particularly because of the, sort of, rather sensational nature of his, sort of...mental collapse...he's certainly known in the music business in Britain...he's known for being a weirdo, rather than for being a songwriter.
Lee Anne: Unfortunately.
And, you know, people have, sort of, completely misperceived him. To a degree, a certain amount of that also applies to me -- certainly in Britain. Because people just say, "Oh, he sounds like Syd Barrett. But he's not really mad, so he he must be a phony." The virtue of Syd Barrett wasn't that he was mad--
But he certainly has...there's an intensity in his stuff which I certainly could never match. And I've never heard anyone -- with the possible exception of Dylan around the Blonde On Blonde era, I've never heard anything else as intense as that. Sort of, raw talent burning up, you know? Other people...just very seldom do you hear it. No, I certainly couldn't match it. But these days, I don't try. I just carry on writing the best songs I can.
But, by the same token, do you think people sometimes just say, like, "Oh, Robyn Hitchcock."? You have more of a reputation for being like a madcap sort of person. And by the same token, they just ignore that you're a songwriter, as well.
Sometimes. But then, it's certainly something that I've played up to, if you like.
Carefully.
No, not carefully. But then, it's quite easy to go over-the-top, sometimes. And it's nice to entertain people, and let things spin out fast. I create worlds very quickly, and then erase them and create other ones. That's my particular talent.
To me, that's just everyone else's lack of imagination, if they can't do it.
I don't know. Maybe it is. But I think it's no good getting bitter about people's lack of imagination. I mean, Captain Beefheart should have been bigger than Led Zeppelin. But that didn't happen.
Around Trout Mask Replica?
You know, it just went the other...I mean, Beefheart...he was accepted in Europe a bit. But, you know, there's nothing you can do. There's nothing I can do. I can't do anything about their own...Syd Barrett's or Captain Beefheart's careers. Except I think that maybe they were both too uncompromising. And both took it hard that the industry didn't give them the respect that they deserved. I mean, Beefheart doesn't play any more, either. But he paints.
[Trudy -- head of the fan club, works at Billboard -- enters the room. Time to go, but lastly] Well, you've got one more question? I don't.
Lee Anne: Okay. Well, I remember when you played Maxwell's, acoustic, about three years ago. You played three songs by the "String Band"?
I played all three at once.
Lee Anne: I'm not really familiar with them. But they were really pretty. Do you think they'll come out of the woodwork one day?
I think we lost them. But they're really good recordings, too. That's Robin Williamson, and Mike.
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